Hello – I came across this verse today:

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Am I understanding correctly that this is saying that we will be subject to the flesh until the day we die? Do we have this working within us: “Rom 7:25 … with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin…”

2Co 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Are we acknowledging of the second death within us “when we are weak” “as reprobates”??

2Co 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.
2Co 13:8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
2Co 13:9 For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.

From this stems my new confusion: how do those predestined for the outward second death experience the law of sin if they are physically dead? Can the law of sin only be served “with the flesh”? I seem to be confused in general about mind/ body/ spirit – mind and heavens are synonymous for those having it….. but is it possible for spirit to be corrupt? I feel like this verse is not saying that:

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

Thank you for any insight,
N____

Hello N____,

Thanks for pointing these verses out and also asking a few questions. I would add a few things from scripture that came to mind as I was reading yours thoughts and questions.

Am I understanding correctly that this is saying that we will be subject to the flesh until the day we die? That we have this working within us: “Rom 7:25 … with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin…

We definitely will contend with what the flesh wants versus what the spirit tells us to do. In other words, we are told to OBEY and NOT SACRIFICE. I only emphasize with all caps because the Lord makes a big deal out of us listening to Him out of belief [ Faith] versus us doing something for the Lord or ourselves. “Lord, let’s get the show on the road!” We can do nothing without Christ, including the very acts of the things which cause “all that is in the world” to lead to SIN.
It is only when LUST has conceived that sin is born. This is so important because we are DOOMED to live out this law that plays in our members, but we ARE eventually…. day by day, given dominion over the “giants in the land” and the “mountains” that we need to “throw into the sea”. The Lord has created us this way, but He has also created a Way out, praise God!

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

We can’t say we are tempted of God, because it is God who knows fully well that He has created the clay of the ground to “hold the water” just perfectly. It is a perfectly created “sinning machine”, but so too, is the perfectly created “Son- ning machine.” We are created to be enticed away, each and every one of us.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The difference with Jesus Christ, of course, is that in His temptation He was given the Holy Spirit without measure and was then able to be the only one not to succumb to sinning.
It is interesting that right after we are told that all of mankind are pulled away and enticed, we are then confronted with things pertaining to the heavenly realm. Ha! It is all the same battle and war!

Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Given that we are in war now and KNOW that we are the chief of sinners who will always succumb to the “will of our flesh”, LET US MOVE ON TO PERFECTION, yet we will never have it without shedding this flesh first just as Christ did and ascended to the Father. We are not left to wonder how this happens either, so continuing in James we see:

Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, DECEIVING YOUR OWN SELVES.

I remember so clearly that it hit me hard when I finally realised that I can’t trick God. That seems like a simple statement, and it is, but when it finally hits a person that there is a tally being taken that only God and they know of and the importance of the fact that God SEES everything… then it starts to work in you differently. I don’t mean in a condemning way either, but when God has ordained all in all and you come to see His ways ARE ABOVE your ways, then it becomes much easier to want to “take” that yoke from His hands and put it around your own neck, which is what I felt.
It really is a Godly “willingness” which God Himself has placed inside me because He first starts with His Son and then as Christ ascends to the “above your ways” place seated at the right hand of God the Father, He imparts His wisdom to me to WANT and DESIRE to OBEY His Way – the narrow Way – what ALWAYS appears to be the reprobate way because it is being called out of babylon that starts this process. We too, must come out of babylon.

We are acknowledging of the second death within “when we are weak” “as reprobates”??

You got it, and it is just as Paul says that we can do a lot of things, but we ourselves must “prove ourselves” lest we truly be reprobates while “being hearers and not doers”. They called John the baptist names, they called Jesus Christ names, and they call us names, but we truly only have One name that matters and that is of our Husband. It is not of ourselves that Christ took us in as poor, blind, miserable, wretched and naked whores, but we are nonetheless hated for it and are looked at as reprobates.

2Co 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.
2Co 13:8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
2Co 13:9 For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.
From this, stems my new confusion: how do those predestined for the outward second death experience the law of sin if they are physically dead? Can the law of sin only be served “with the flesh”? I seem to be confused in general about mind/ body/ spirit. Mind and heavens are synonymous for those having it… but is it possible for spirit to be corrupt? I feel like this verse is not saying that:
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

I am not sure I follow this first part of the question fully, but those who will experience the “lake of fire” are going to experience the same fire but just second in line. So, their second death is simply going to be a rehashing of their lives and giving an account to the Lord of what they need to do to move on to perfection themselves. There are definitely corrupt spirits, but as you have listed here, the Spirit of God is not corrupt, and the Spirit that He gives us of Himself .. His body and our new ones… is incorruptible. However, even when raised as spiritually- body beings… the INSIDE of the CUP has to be cleansed….. it is no different for Satan, demons or us when we are in the spiritual realm! All must be washed!
I hope that helps with your questions somewhat and only as the Lord wills it.

YBITC,
Steven

Steve,

Thank you so much for your response. Your answers do help, and I have come off the tail- end of searching this topic for almost a week (along with help from Mike & Mitch) and false doctrines are starting to be exposed within. Our souls being God’s knowledge of who we are has been HUGE and softened a lot of the confusion.
Everything we have of Christ’s is simply and purely God’s mercy towards us. I am in shock and awe of the work He has begun in me!

Isa 49:15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
Isa 49:16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
Isa 49:17 Thy children shall make haste; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee.

Thanks,
N____

[ Steve Crook can be reached for comment or further questions at scrook(at) gmail. com] >