[ This is the end of an exchange on the scriptural identification of Satan.]

Hi C____,

It is good to hear from you again.

According to your equation there would be no need to ‘rule’ during the millennium.’ If your equation were scriptural, then the return of Christ to the earth would equal the “all in all” of 1Co 15.

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things [ even Satan, who was not subdued, but imprisoned] shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

But here is the Truth of the scriptures on this subject:

1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
1Sa 16:15 And Saul’s servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

According to your equation, Jonathan, Abner and the entire nation of Israel was ‘troubled by an evil spirit from the Lord. Why then, didn’t Jonathan thrust a javelin at David? Did Jonathan not have a “subtle mind?” Was Jonathan not given “the mind of the flesh?” If he were why then are we told that “the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and a evil spirit from the Lord troubled Saul?”

Of course Jonathan had the same mind as the rest of us, and the same temptations as the rest of us, as did David also. But Jonathan and David “loved” each other as brothers and friends (1Sa 18:1). The whole world is under this influence of the “mind of the flesh” (not just Israel) and is capable of love as well as hate (that’s why Jonathan didn’t kill David). The “evil spirit” that troubled Saul was not just “the mind of the flesh” it was a mental illness, known today as schizophrenia. He had all the classic symptoms; delusions, withdrawal, conflicting emotions, and deterioration of personality. The same as some of the people that had their “devils” (Gk. demons – mental illness) cast out (healed) by Jesus in the Gospels. Some that Jesus healed had other than schizophrenia, some had what is known as dementia.
If your equation is scriptural, what need is there for “rulers” during the millennium?

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

This is not speaking of an inward change, this is “twelve legions of angels” that enforce outwardly the people of this world to obey Christ instead of crucifying Him.

Mat 26:51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus [ Peter] stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest’s, and smote off his ear.
Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Mat 26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

“There is a time for all things. That time, Peter’s defense of Christ, was not the time for the “ruling with a rod of iron.” But that time is coming. It will be accomplished after Satan is placed in prison and is no more able to “go forth and deceive the nations.”

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

What separates these rulers from those who have died in their sins?

A very, very good point, and one that still puzzles me. However, there are as many interpretations of Revelation as there are denominations of Christendom. If we take … “having the key… bottomless pit… a great chain… the dragon… serpent… devil… satan… bound him… thousand years” as all literal then, of course, you are correct. However, they may be just as symbolic as the rest of Revelation and could mean something very different from a literal interpretation. It could be interpreted as during the time of “ruling with a rod of iron” that people no longer have “freedom of religion”, that various crimes are actually “prevented” instead of having punishment for a “deterrent”. I simply, don’t know, but I do know that the entire book is symbolic and not literal.

1Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1Jn 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

“The wicked one” being the same as “the man of sin” (2Th 2:3) ” the son of perdition”

I know that all Truth is received only because God, through His spirit reveals it to anyone. Anything received any other way (me showing you or you showing me) is not a ‘revelation of the Truth.’ You say “I cannot see it.” And I tell you that I do not see mere flesh as the means of coordinating all the evil in the world to accomplish all the prophecies that must be fulfilled. It would take an entire world of evil spirits to accomplish this feat. And so we are told:

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places [ heaven].

“For we wrestle not against mortal man, but against principalities (religious ideas), against powers (people with power over other people), against the rulers (priests) of the darkness (false doctrines) of this world, against spiritual wickedness (false religious beliefs) in high places (governments).”

I will be the first to say that ‘heaven’ is the hearts and minds of the people of God, and that it is here that the ‘warring’ and ‘wrestling,’ that Paul and the other apostles refer to so often, take place. But we are worlds apart when it comes to saying that this is simply the carnal mind. You sell your enemy short. Satan has been given rulership over “all the kingdoms of the world.”

Luk 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

The only one given this power was Jesus, the Christ – therefore, it was the “mind of the flesh” arguing with the “mind of the spirit”. Nowhere in the Scriptures is the world said to be given to or turned over to a spirit being called Satan. How, then, could “he” offer it to Jesus?

I can see how you can reason that this is only the carnal mind, but that does not satisfy the fact that Satan is imprisoned during the thousand years and the carnal mind is still in need of rulership through the “pouring out of the seven last plagues.” These plagues are not simply poured out at the beginning of the millennium and then everything is subdued and obedient to Christ. It is after the thousand years that we read this:

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

God’s wrath on the kingdom of the ‘beast’ is poured out right up to the “fire that comes down from God out of heaven,” which is after the “short season” when Satan is released from his prison and is again allowed to go forth and deceive the carnal minds of those who make up the nations who have been being ruled under these plagues. No one is “overcoming the wicked one.” So there are no “overcomers” during the millennium. ‘Overcoming” is an ‘inward’ accomplishment. It is not accomplished with a “rod of iron” from without. So we are plainly told:

Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Well, according to Rev 21:8-10, it is after the millennium, and just before the new Jerusalem, that men are again able to “enter the temple.” Christ is that ‘temple.’ It is through Him and those who are ‘in Him’ that “all in Adam” will be converted.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

If “Christ in us is” simply our changed mind and not “a literal spirit being,” then I could agree with you that “Satan is not a literal spirit being.” While I think we agree that Christ is a literal spirit being, “the seed of the woman, “who feeds and is nourished in our spirit, you apparently cannot see that God also created another “literal spirit being, “the seed of the serpent”, who feeds and is nourished by the dust that we are, our fleshly carnal mind. It is ‘food’ for only one of these two spirits, not the carnal mind of man. The ‘carnal mind of man’ is not to be found in scripture. That is because there is nothing that is ‘of man’.

That there is nothing that is “of man” is something I agree with. God creates all including the “carnal mind of man”. However, “the seed of the serpent” in the beginning, was Cain. The “seed of the woman” was Abel (by type). The “seed of the serpent” is the unrighteous (the mind of the flesh) and the “seed of the woman” was Jesus (the mind of the spirit) as the anti- type of Cain and Abel.

We know that God creates evil – but where is it that God created a “devil”? “All is of God”, as you say, and is the truth, and it is God who does it all. Where is the literal spirit being called satan? “I, the Lord, do all these things” (Isa 45:7). Of course, we could revert to “Lucifer” and say that an arch- angel rebelled against God in the dark distant past and bring in the “war in heaven” in Revelation etc, but, for my part, I think I will refrain from doing that.

How did the devil, called Satan, offer the world to Christ, seeing that all things were given to him (Christ) from the foundation of the world? They certainly didn’t belong to a literal spirit being called Satan, the devil. How was it “his” to give? Where’s the scripture?

In the hope of Israel,

C____

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Here is the answer to your question:

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The messengers (angels) of the ‘mind of man’ were cast out with the ‘mind of man??’

High places in Eph 6:12 are not ‘governments’ but heaven. The Greek for ‘high’ is epouranios – Strong’s # 2032. The word ‘places’ was added and is not in the original text. This same word is translated ‘heavenly’ in Matthew.

Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly [epouranios] Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

And again right here in Eph 1:3:

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [ epouranios] [ places- again not in the original text, but added by translators] in Christ:

It is generally translated heaven or heavenly. It is never referring to high earthly governments. Satan is “in the heavens” where he receives his orders for each day. ‘Go down and deceive Eve,’ ‘try my servant Job,’ ‘trouble king Saul,’ ‘be a lying spirit in the mouth of all of Ahab’s prophets,’ ‘enter into Judas,’ ‘wrestle with the elect,’ etc. Satan is not cast out of the earth, but ‘heaven’.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven [ Greek – ouranos – Strong’s #3772].
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Is the ‘carnal mind of man’ in heaven? That is where Satan is. He is “in heaven”? Just food for thought.

Mike