Abiding in the Doctrine of Christ

At What Point is a Person Considered Converted?

Mike,

Thank you so much for hosting the conference at your house. It was very nourishing for us. We greatly enjoyed meeting everyone, and cannot wait to see you all again.

I do have a question: At the end of the article on the number 1=unity, you wrote this “Can anyone who is not ‘of the same mind’ and not “abiding in the doctrine of Christ” be a converted Christian?”

If we are “being saved” at what point does someone become “converted”? What does it mean to be of the same mind and abide in the doctrine of Christ?

Thank You,

M____

Hi M_____,

You ask:

You ask:
If we are “Being saved” at what point does someone become “converted”.

I have a letter on iswasandwillbe.com entitled The Seven Steps To Salvation which demonstrates that Israel was not converted simply by applying the blood to the doorpost as we have been taught.

The short answer to your question is that you are converted when “sin [no longer] has dominion over you… and you are free from sin.”

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

What does “freed from sin” mean? Does “freed from sin” mean that we are perfected in this life? No, it does not. If it did then Paul would not make all these statements:

Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [this] one thing [I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect [Greek: being perfected], be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

We walk “whereto we have already attained.” We are not already perfect. We “count not ourselves to have apprehended”, rather we “press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling.” Look at this verse:

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

“Being made conformable to His death… till we all come… unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.” I hope these verses demonstrate that ‘being converted’ is life-long process which demonstrates the truth of these words:

Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

That is what Paul meant by “I die daily.”

1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

When are we converted? It certainly isn’t when we are called. 1 Corinthians 1 and 3 demonstrate that for us:

1Co 1:1 Paul, called [to be] an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes [our] brother,
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Co 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and [in] all knowledge;
1Co 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
1Co 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

“Called to be saints… in everything enriched by Him, in all utterance and in all knowledge… the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you… you came behind in no gift.” That all sounds very good. Were these Corinthians therefore converted? No, just like Christ’s apostles after following Christ for three and one half years, casting out demons and healing the sick, these Corinthians were still not converted. None of us are converted when we first come to Christ. We are at first carnal babes.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

“The testimony of Christ and the possession of spiritual gifts do not prove conversion. Look at what Christ told Peter after three and on half years of healing the sick and casting out demons:

Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Luk 22:33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
Luk 22:34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

As long as we are still denying Christ, blaspheming His name among the heathen, we are not yet converted. Here is how we know when we are converted:

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

When sin is no longer your slave master, you are no longer a “carnal babe in Christ.” As long as sin still controls you and your actions and thoughts you are not yet converted.

I hope that is of some help, as you “die daily [and you] decrease as He increases into the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.” Conversion is that process. It is not a date on the calendar which has come and gone.

Your next question was:

What does it mean to be of the same mind, and abide in the doctrine of Christ?

What it does not mean is to be divided into literally hundreds of thousands of conflicting denominations, each brandishing its own ‘statement of beliefs’ yet all striving for “unity in the essentials and tolerance in the nonessentials.”

Look at these verses and allow that “one spirit” to show you what it means to “be of the same mind.”

Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

False doctrines, as we will see later, are ‘spirits which are not of God’ (1Jn 4:1). Knowing that, I want you to consider this verse.

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

There is but one body in one spirit.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both [Jew and Gentile] have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Our access to the Father is “by one spirit,” not by thousands of false doctrines.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Where is there room in any of those verses for Jew or Gentile, Catholic or Protestant, or any of the thousands of splinters within any of those four groups? The scriptures prescribe divisions within the body of God’s elect, and that is why God’s elect are commanded to “come out of her my people.”

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

When you understand What and Where Is Heaven, then you will understand why “her sins have reached unto heaven.” If you have not yet read that paper linked above, be sure to do so. The “powers and principalities” of the heavens are the very sins we struggle against as we “try the spirits to see whether they are of God.”

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

This is one of the most revealing verses of scripture because it reveals the connection between evil spirits and the false doctrines of false prophets.

Compare what passes for Christianity with what Paul was expecting of those who attended the congregations He was used by Christ to raise up:

Php 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

There it is. You asked “What does one mind mean?” One mind means one spirit, and one spirit means one mind.

Does all of this talk about “one spirit, one body, and one mind” mean that Paul was a dictator? Absolutely not. Look at these words of our Lord and of Paul:

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

2Co 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

God’s elect have dominion over nothing but sin in their own lives, and even that is “through Christ.”

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

To anyone who cannot, and does not, believe that Christ really is the head of His church; to those who demand that a pastor, evangelist, bishop, preacher, priest, or Pope be the head of their church, the holy spirit’s words, penned by Paul and the other writers of the New Testament who all speak of “speaking the same thing, being of one mind and being in one spirit,” these words no doubt sound like the words of a cult leader, but the truth of the scriptures remains that anyone who has a statement of beliefs other then “every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God” is the true apostate from the word of God.

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

How could anyone who truly believes we are to “live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God” subscribe to the doctrine of “unity in the essentials and tolerance in the nonessentials?” Which words of “every word proceeding out of the mouth of God” are “nonessential?”

We have been given scriptures which direct us away from all these ‘tried and found wanting spirits’ but for some strange reason these verses seldom show up in the statements of beliefs of all the orthodox churches of Christianity, simply because these verses condemn denominationalism. For example, let just get started with the verse we quoted above:

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God:because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

What are God’s elect supposed to do when they discover a “spirit which is not of God?” How can we possibly know for certain which spirits are of God? The scriptures alone can make that decision, but who can receive their fiery testimony? It’s right here is this same chapter which tells us to “believe not every spirit, but try the spirits.” Here alone is how we can know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error:

1Jn 4:5 They [those who refuse to “try the spirits to see whether they are of God”] are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We [who insist on trying the spirits to see whether they are of God] are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Who in the ecumenical, orthodox, “unity in the essentials and tolerance in the nonessentials” Christian church would even dare to quote those inspired words of God? There is not one in the whole lot, simply because if he were to do so he would no longer be an orthodox Christian. God’s word has no place in any denomination as demonstrated by the verses I have already quoted.

How did this happen? Here is exactly what happened.

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

The Greek word for ‘simplicity’ is ‘haplotes‘ and it is defined by James Strong as ‘singleness.’ Before the apostles were even dead, the churches they had been used to raise up had already been “corrupted from the singleness, the one body, one spirit, one mind, and one gospel that is Christ.” This is not speculation; this is the truth of 2 Corinthians 11:3 and many other scriptures. Yet we all prefer to “bear with” heresy and heretics rather than be separated from our brothers, the “seed of Abraham” who spiritually are “the son of the bondwoman.”

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Here is another scripture which reveals the apostasy in progress before the apostles died:

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

“Another gospel” is not another but rather is a perverted gospel of Christ. Christians all believe this is anyone but themselves. The obvious Truth is that we have all been part of this Babylonian system, and if we are not given eyes to see it, we will never see our own blindness.

Joh 9:37 And Jesus said unto him [you and I, born blind], Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And [some] of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

As is so often the case regarding understanding “the things of the spirit”, sight comes only through acknowledging our blindness. Some call that “believing in contradictions.” Jesus made many such statements.

Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it [etc.].

Denominationalism was already institutionalized while Paul was still alive.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Orthodox Christianity would say, “Well, yes, of course Christ is divided. He is divided a few thousand times at least.”

So what are we to do when no one is willing to be the ‘us’ and the ‘we’ of this verse?

1Jn 4:6 We [who try the spirits to see whether they are of God] are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

There we have it! The one litmus test that truly tells us how we can know the spirit of Truth from the spirit of error, also teaches us what is “the love of God.” Here is the one verse which nullifies all heresies and sects, as well as defining what is love, and the whole orthodox Christian world throws it out the door.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

No, his commandments are not grievous. His commandments keep His elect “of one mind.”

2Co 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Php 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

1Pe 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

Three times we are told as plainly as it can be stated, “Be of one mind.” If this is impossible, then this final admonition is also impossible. But of course, through Christ and His word, these admonitions are not only possible but they are essential if we claim to “love God and keep his commandments.”

Here now is how unity is to be maintained within and among God’s elect:

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Tit 3:11  Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

What is that first and second admonition?

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall [have been] bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall [have been] loosed in heaven.

Will any one deny that heresy is a sin against a brother? Is heresy not dealt with in the same manner?

2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your [spiritual] house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

“Abideth not in the doctrine of Christ???” But I thought we were not to judge. Didn’t Christ say, “Judge not that ye be not judged?”

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

There it is! Christ said, “Judge not.” However, what is the sum of His word on this subject? How can we possible “obey his commandments” in 2 John 1:8-11 if we “judge not?” And how about these verses:

1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1Co 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

… and what do we do with these verses:

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

“We have the mind of Christ and judge all things.” That is more of “the sum of thy word” on this subject of judging.

Are we not “as he is in this world?” Yes, we are.

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Why did Christ come to this world?

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

Just maybe Christ had more to say here in Matthew 7:

Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Christ is speaking specifically of our hypocrisy. It a hypocrite with a tree in his eye who has no business judging his brother who has a speck of dust in his eye. That is the point of Matthew 7:1-4.

Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

He comes out and tells us as much:

Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

Those who have seen their own hypocrisy are actually admonished, “Then shall you see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother’s eye.” In other words:

1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

He is especially keen to judge an evil and false spirit:

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
1Jn 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

God’s elect are not deceived by the argument of false “love of God” simply because they know what the “love of God” is.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

God’s elect are more than willing to be separated from their “seed of the bondwoman” brothers who are loath to be separated from their brothers; who much prefer the mantra of “Unity in the essentials and tolerance in the nonessentials” to:

2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your [spiritual] house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

There you have it. It appears that God expects His elect to know Him and His Son, Jesus Christ. It appears that in order to know God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent, we must also know and “abide in the doctrine of Jesus Christ.”

2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

I hope this helps you to see what “abide in the doctrine of Christ” and “be of one mind” means. My prayers are with you as you continue to abide in that doctrine and strive to “come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:”

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Your brother in Christ,

Mike