Aren’t There Differences Between How Physical and Spiritual Beings Are Treated?

Hi Mike,

I’m wondering if you can give a deeper explanation of how the lake of fire is the same for God’s elect now and supposedly the same for unbelievers later in the resurrection to judgment. I’ve read much of what you say about the fire, that it saves, and is not literal but a metaphor for God’s judgment. I get that and agree. I experience the fire of God on a daily basis, sometimes more intensely than other days, but I experience it because judgment is now on the house of God, of which house God is making me. But you also say unbelievers that come up in the resurrection to face the symbolic lake of fire will face the very same fire. I’ve heard you say unbelievers will face the exact same fiery trials, but just at a later date in a less desirable resurrection. I’m not sure I can agree the fire will be exactly the same for unbelievers later as it is for believers now. There will be differences in the fiery experience. I think you will agree if I give some examples.
For example, one difference in experiences is that I’m flesh and blood human right now facing fiery trials, but those in the second resurrection you say will be resurrected with a spiritual body and face fiery trials. Do spiritual bodies fight disease? Right now I have some health problems to battle. Will spirits in the second resurrection face fiery trials of disease? If not, isn’t that a difference? Right now, I am flesh and blood and know I will face the fiery trial of death one day, but spirits in the lake of fire will have memory of already having died and coming alive again. They will be resurrected in a spirit body that can no longer die. Isn’t that a difference? Right now, I face the fiery trial of doubt, as I even doubt sometimes that God exists, and maybe there is something to evolution that the scientists say is true. Once resurrected in spirit bodies, unbelievers will no longer have room for doubt. They will have proof God exists! Isn’t that a difference? Right now I don’t directly see or interact with God’s resurrected humans and angels, but spirits brought up in the lake of fire resurrection will directly see and interact with Peter, James, John, the angels, Jesus, etc. You say God’s elect will be directly and visibly administering that lake of fire. Isn’t that another difference in experiences? Right now, I can go commit sex sin with a prostitute if I want to.
But in the lake of fire, I’m assuming one of the fiery trials spirits will face is the inability to commit their favorite sins. I assume God will prevent sex sin and probably all sins that spirits may want to commit in the lake of fire. Am I right there? If so, isn’t that another difference? For that matter, do spirit beings even have genital organs? Isn’t that a fleshly thing? Maybe the spirits in the lake of fire won’t even have ability to have sex? If they don’t have genitals, do they even have sexual desire? If not, wouldn’t that be another difference? I could go on and on. But I think you get my point. The fiery trials I face now as a flesh and blood human being are very much different I think than the fiery trials resurrected spirit beings will face in the lake of fire. I’m sure there will be many similarities in the experiences, but also vast differences in the experiences. I don’t think you can say it is “the exact same fire” that both groups will face, and the only difference is some face that fire now, and most others will face the exact same fire later. It is a much different experience in many ways and the fire will have to manifest in quite a different way. I think you could say the fire may be similar in alot of ways, but also vastly different in many ways. Would you agree? Please share your thoughts and explain these discrepancies if you can.

Thanks,
D____

Hi D____,
Thank you for all of your questions.

I cannot take the time to answer them all one by one, but I will answer a few of them to demonstrate for you scripturally that the spirit world really is understood “by the things that are made”.

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

That verse means what it says. We can understand the invisible things of the spirit world by observing the things that are made, even God’s “eternal power and Godhead”. If the Lord grants you to grasp that principle, then you will understand that spirits can and do experience everything the natural realm experiences.
It will be of great help to you to always keep in mind that the “fire” of “the lake of fire” is God’s Word. It does not become something else at that time. It is the same fire then that gives us our own “fiery trials” now.

1Co 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

You ask if spirits must fight diseases, and the answer is, yes, they certainly do. Not physical diseases, but spiritual diseases. All diseases bring discomfort, hence the word ‘dis- ease’. Can and do spirits experience discomfort? Let’s let the spirits themselves answer that question:

Mat 8:29 And, behold, they [ evil spirits, sent by God to afflict two men with insanity] cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

You ask:

Right now, I am flesh and blood and know I will face the fiery trial of death one day, but spirits in the lake of fire will have memory of already having died and coming alive again. They will be resurrected in a spirit body that can no longer die. Isn’t that a difference?

When Christ spoke of death, He seldom ever spoke of physical death as death. To Christ physical death was nothing more than taking a nap:

Mat 9:24  He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
Joh 11:11  These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

So real death is what spirits in rebellion against God do experience. Fear has torment, and those who fear death are tormented:

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

So death itself is not the problem, but is the solution. The problem is the fear of death and the torment of that fear:

1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Death is the solution for the torment of fear. That is why “the lake of fire is called “the second death”.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

So torment in a body of spirit that cannot die, but which knows that it must be changed, is no different than us knowing that we must “die daily”. It is the exact same experience. Satan and all of his minions must “die daily” until they, just as we are doing now, are changed into the image of Christ. It simply is not physical death, disease, blindness, fear, etc.; it is spiritual.

You say:

Right now I don’t directly see or interact with God’s resurrected humans and angels, but spirits brought up in the lake of fire resurrection will directly see and interact with Peter, James, John, the angels, Jesus, etc. You say God’s elect will be directly and visibly administering that lake of fire. Isn’t that another difference in experiences?

You may not be aware of it, but your every move is directly administered by the spirit realm. That realm is called “a law”, and it is “the law of sin and death” which works in our flesh and in our members. It is administered by the spirit realm.

Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [ how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

The same is true in the lake of fire. At God’s own appointed time, a change begins to overcome us and “the law of sin and death” no longer has control over us. It is a process, but eventually we can see that we “have passed from death unto life”. At that point the next verse begins to have the hegemony:

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Then we can look back and say with the apostle:

Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

All of this takes place in the lake of fire just as it is working in us now. Spirits in the lake of fire have this exact same experience because their ‘fire’ is the same fire we experience.

You ask:

Right now, I can go commit sex sin with a prostitute if I want to. But in the lake of fire, I’m assuming one of the fiery trials spirits will face is the inability to commit their favorite sins. I assume God will prevent sex sin and probably all sins that spirits may want to commit in the lake of fire. Am I right there? If so, isn’t that another difference? For that matter, do spirit beings even have genital organs? Isn’t that a fleshly thing? Maybe the spirits in the lake of fire won’t even have ability to have sex? If they don’t have genitals, do they even have sexual desire? If not, wouldn’t that be another difference? I could go on and on. But I think you get my point.

Indeed we could go on and on because the experience there in the spirit realm, is “understood by the things that are made.” Physical sex is but a type of obedience to God and being at one with the spirit realm. If we use sex illicitly, in disobedience to the commandments of God that it be only between a married man and woman, then we are fornicators, whores or whoremongers. In that case we are of our father the devil. On the other hand, if we are given to fear to disobey God and we are given the desire to please Him and Him only, then we are at one with Him, and through Christ, He is our spiritual Husband.
So, the answer again is, yes, spirits ‘have sex’. Once again it is not physical sex; it is spiritual oneness and unity with the spirit realm.

You conclude with this question:

I don’t think you can say it is “the exact same fire” that both groups will face, and the only difference is some face that fire now, and most others will face the exact same fire later. It is a much different experience in many ways and the fire will have to manifest in quite a different way. I think you could say the fire may be similar in a lot of ways, but also vastly different in many ways. Would you agree? Please share your thoughts and explain these discrepancies if you can.

As I said at the opening of this exchange, “It will be of great help to you to always keep in mind, that the “fire” of “the lake of fire” is God’s Word. It does not become something else at that time. It is the same fire then that gives us our own “fiery trials” now.”

Jer 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

So the answer to your question is, no, I cannot agree that “the fire is vastly different”. The details of how we experience that fire are different for every person now, just as they will vary from person to person in the lake of fire. But the fire itself is the Word of God, hrist, and “Christ does not change”.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

“For ever” in Heb 13:8 is ‘aion’, and since the lake of fire is called ‘aionian’ or ‘eternal’ judgment, Christ and His fiery Words will be the exact same fire then as now.
You asked for my thoughts, and I hope I have not given you my thoughts but Christ’s. I hope this all helps you to see the Truth that is these verses of scripture:

Ecc 9:2 All things come alike to all: [ there is] one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as [ is] the good, so [ is] the sinner; [ and] he that sweareth, as [ he] that feareth an oath.
1Co 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike