Bobby wrote:

Hi Mike!
This is Bobby again. It took that long to get around to giving you a little more detail about us. At WCG one of my jobs was Personal Correspondence, but it was always difficult to correspond through, at that time, CCMail, that is still the case. I became a member of WCG in 1970 and was employed from 1982 to 1999 when I resigned. I went through the whole ‘works’ from deacon to Church Elder. I declined the offer to stay on with a discretionary allowance and left with a small gratuity. (I am now 66 years old, my wife Isa 55) The urge at that time was very strong and even more so now as I only came to understand that is was the Father Who was dragging us out when I began to study your articles.
What I have been doing over the years since 1999, in a small way, was sending what I considered to be helpful articles to others, most of whom have also left. I am being very cautious now, trying to give only to those who request. I am an amateur book binder and that helps.
What I really want to ask is, where man’s lack of freewill is concerned, does he have the choice, (those who have God’s Spirit) to decide whether to act with a carnal motive, or a spiritual motive? For example one can give a beggar something to get rid of him, or he can do it with the love of God. (1Co 13). I suspect that Eph 1:11 is clear, it says “All things”.
There are many things that I don’t understand, but I find your question and answer section helpful. For the first time I am beginning to see the pieces of the jigsaw fitting where God’s word is concern.
Thanks again for everything.
Bobby

Hi Bobby,
Thank you for sharing your story with me. I’m wondering if you knew any ministers who attended A. C. in the late 60’s. I attended from 65-69. Then I worked in Pasadena from 69-73. So I was gone long before all of the changes came about. But the old church and the new churches are nothing more than daughters of their mother, and they are one and all harlots. But harlots are where God’s people come from, so I am grateful for my time in that harlot system. But I am even more grateful that I have been called out of that system.
You ask:

What I really want to ask is, where man’s lack of freewill is concerned, does he have the choice, (those who have God’s Spirit) to decide whether to act with a carnal motive, or a spiritual motive? For example one can give a beggar something to get rid of him, or he can do it with the love of God. (1Co 13). I suspect that Eph 1:11 is clear, it says “All things”.

The answer is that, yes, we do have choice. How could any logical person deny that we make many choices every day. But what we do not have is ‘free’ choice. Every choice which has ever been made by any man since and including Adam, is a caused choice, and it was not caused by anyone other that the Great Cause of all things.

Pro 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, [ is] from the LORD.
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

I am supposing that you have read already After The Counsel Of His Own Will. If not, be sure to do so. There is nothing that is not happening “after the counsel of His own will.”

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

There are many scriptures which bear this out, Bobby. Just type ‘all things’ into e- sword and you will be amazed at just how many times it comes out and tells us “all things are of God.” It never reads ‘all good things are of God,’ it just says “all is of God.” God’s sovereignty is total, Bobby.

Pro 20:24 Man’s goings [ good or evil] are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

So you see, Bobby, even our motives are the result of God’s sovereignty. “How can a man understand his own way?”

Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [ have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

If we are made with a pleasant disposition, then that is God’s doings. If otherwise, then that too is God’s “working all things after the counsel of His Own Will.”
I perceive that you already know this, and you are just struggling with it’s depth and totality.
It is good that you are witnessing to others as you have the opportunity. I feel sure you are already aware that “dragging people to God” is not our responsibility. The Holy Spirit has people to ask us and we need to be ready to answer.
I hope this has answered your question, Bobby. The short answer is that we have choice, but it is all caused choices.
It would be good to see you and your wife at our conference in Salisbury, North Carolina in August. Stay in touch, Bobby.
Mike