Mike,

I read and listened to the recordings you suggested. I see that a person falls short when he sees the vials, plagues, etc. are not for him.  It seems to me that there are those who believe that because they fail to see their guilt in the sins of Babylon, therefore they do not have to experience the plagues. I do tend to believe concerning wrath versus fiery trials and tribulations, that wrath seems to be more severe in both administration and veracity reserved for those who fail to repent until the second death.  Thank you for your time and quick response, and please let me know if I am missing something concerning wrath versus fiery trials and tribulations.

Your Brother, S____

Hi S____,

God is love, and all He does is out of love. He is not in the business of hardening hearts simply for the sake of displaying His wrath on someone. It is just not given to some now to accept and stick with Biblical principles like these:

Mat 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Rev 1:3  Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Ecc 9:2  All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as [is] the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as [he] that feareth an oath.
Ecc 9:3  This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Every word?… Keep those things which are written therein? Yes, every word and all of the things written therein. I believe those words.

Rev 22:18  For I testify to every one that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book.
Rev 22:19  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book.

Does Mat 4:4 or Rev 1:3 exclude part of Psa 38:1? Do they exclude Rev 15-16? No, the truth is ” No man can enter the temple of God till the seven angels have poured out the seven plagues.”

Rev 15:8  And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Is that ‘temple’ someone else? Out of your own mouth you will be judged.

1Co 3:16  Know you not that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The rule that governs all judgment, both now and in the lake of fire, is not some unscriptural theory of God’s wrath being reserved for someone else’s unrighteousness and ungodliness, but that part of His word is not for you and me. No, it is all for us all:

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Here is the principle which governs God’s judgments whether at the first or the second resurrection:

Luk 12:47  And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes].
Luk 12:48  But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

There are those who believe that “wrath” and “chastening” are decidedly NOT in the same family. But Ecc 9 says otherwise as does Heb 12:

Heb 12:6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Paul said he was “chief of sinners.”

1Ti 1:15  This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

So does Paul consider himself to be chief of sinners, but consider others to be the object of God’s wrath???

Are those words not for you and me? They are for me, and I hope you think that they are for you.

There are those who teach that Paul never did experience God’s wrath for the things he did. Here is what Christ said of us all, and it is “the same” for all men in their own times (Ecc 9:2-3).

Mat 23:34  Therefore behold I send to you prophets and wise men and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify: and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city.
Mat 23:35  That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36  Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation.

Are any of these words for someone else besides you and me? Does “upon you” mean someone else much more deserving of God’s wrath than you?  Did you and I slay and betray Christ? Be careful how you answer. “Out of your own mouth I will judge you… and mankind will live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.”

Luk 19:22  And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

God is the same yesterday, today and forever, and He tells us this right after telling us that every son will experience His scourgings:

Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Do you see a difference between scourging and wrath? If you do and if you think certain words of God’s word have no personal application, then you are saying that there is a part of the sayings of this book which are not for you, and as a brother once told me, “If I do not see my own name on every page of God’s Word, then I am taking out that part, and I will have to live that part in the lake of fire.” That is not a scripture, but it is a true statement which is based on Mat 4:4, Rev 1:3, 22:7, and Rev 22:18-21.

God doesn’t change, but He does operate on principles, and He does have a plan that requires that a few be called to bring in the rest. But he will deal with both groups with the same loving principles, and Ecc 9:2-3 and Heb 12:6 “will not pass away” just to accommodate an unscriptural theory which calls for special wrath to be poured out on Joseph’s symbolic brothers, whose hearts God Himself hardened.

I wrote a letter on this subject earlier. Here is the link to that letter for your consideration: The Difference Between Orge And Thumos

I cannot and do not want to convince anyone of anything that is not made clear to that person by God’s spirit, so try the spirits and see if they are of God.

Mat 16:17  And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar- Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.

I think that when you do that you will see that “All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked.” It is simply a matter of God’s own purpose being worked out in His own time.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike