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Hello Mike,

I chanced upon your site while I was researching another topic and decided to give some of your topics a read. I do agree with some and disagree with others. The trinity is one of them. Kindly have a look at some of the material I have put together from my study of the bible. I have gleaned about 24 characteristics, titles and attributes the bible assigns to the Father, and coincidentally it attributes these very same titles to Christ.

Questions that then arise are many, such as: Does the Holy Spirit live? Or does the Holy Spirit, like water or electricity, exist but not as a sentient being? How many Husbands does the church have, how many Kings do we serve, how can two be first and last or Alpha and Omega, and many more. One thing is certain you will be able to study this topic and come to a determination if you are willing to simply consider what the Bible clearly explains.

Kindly examine what I have compiled, and let me know your thoughts.

May God bless,
A____

Hi A____,

I read your studies, and I see that you have put a lot of study into these two topics of who Christ is and who is the holy spirit.

Here is what you said at the beginning of the study on the holy spirit:

Does the Holy Spirit live? Or does the Holy Spirit, like water or electricity, exist but not as a sentient being?… One thing is certain you will be able to study this topic and come to a determination if you are willing to simply consider what the Bible clearly explains.”

This is true for both of us. You have gone to great lengths to show how the holy spirit is presented as a separate person, but this paradox, just like all the paradoxes you presented concerning the person of Christ, are understood when we are “simply willing to consider what the Bible clearly explains”. I hope you do not take what I quote as a put-down of you as a person. I seek only to know what the scriptures teach, and here is what the Bible “clearly explains” that you may have not yet seen:

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Paul is not denying that Christ is God. He has just told us there are many gods and many Lords, and when Christ Himself was answering His critics concerning His claim to be God Son, He made this same point:

Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Christ’s answer to His accusers is that He is not presuming anything to Himself that is not also said of them. We are all “son[s] of God”, and therefore ‘gods’.

If indeed the holy spirit is a separate person, then he would have to be called Christ’s Father because it was He who conceived Christ in Mary’s womb:

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Here is another verse you have not considered:

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The only reason the translators did not capitalize the word ‘holy’ is that they think there is a third person, which Paul just left out of 1 Corinthians  8:6. Such is not the case, and Paul was right in leaving out the holy spirit in 1 Corinthians 8:6:

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

To us there is but one God, and that ‘one God’ is the Father, of whom are all things, just as Colossians 1 explains. Besides this “one God” there is also one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by Him, again, just as Paul also explained in Colossians 1:

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he [Christ] is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For [Christ] it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

If indeed the holy spirit is a person simply because the personal pronoun ‘he’ is used in reference to him, then this section of scripture, as well as 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Ephesians 4:30, are nothing less than a slap in the face of that ‘third co-equal person’.

Here is yet another verse of scripture which our Lord Himself used to explain all of this to us:

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He [the spirit of truth] shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

All things that the Father has are Christ’s, and that is why Christ said “he, the spirit of truth… the comforter… will guide you into all truth for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.”

The repeated use of the personal pronouns ‘he’ and ‘himself’ in no way change the truth of what Christ is, as you put it, “clearly explain[ ing]”. He is explaining to us that His Father has given Him His spirit, so through that spirit Christ can Himself come and live out His life of suffering for His Church within each of us. Look at how Christ had already worded this truth in the two previous chapters:

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he [Christ] dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [“… Christ in you…”]

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Notice how Christ connects this thing called “the spirit of truth” with “the comforter, which is the holy spirit”:

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

It is all there “clearly explained” by our Lord Himself. It is Christ who sends the holy spirit, which proceeds out from His Father… the spirit of truth, which is the holy spirit… I will send him unto you.” “Him” does not tell us that God’s spirit, which proceeds from Him and “of whom are all things” is a separate person of the godhead. He tells us “I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you”:

Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

The godhead is to be understood by the things that are made, and the things that are made which show us how the Godhead operates is the institution of a man and a wife:

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

This is what we are given to help us to understand Christ’s relationship to the Godhead:

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God [That “one God the Father of whom are all things” of 1 Corinthians 8:6]

Here is the verse which explains all the apparent paradoxes you have discovered concerning Christ and the holy spirit:

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Christ clearly explains that “[He] and [His] Father are one”, and “He will not share His glory with another”, but He will make us one with Him, and as such we will share in that glory:

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint- heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

This is all foolishness to the natural man, but those who have spiritual wisdom within, meaning Christ within, will understand:

Pro 8:8 All the words of my [wisdom’s, Christ’s] mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
Pro 8:9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I apologize for this very long email. I encourage you to read a couple of papers on iswasandwillbe. com which have already covered all of this:

Is God A Trinity?

http://iswasandwillbe.com/the_head_of_christ_is_god. php

I was struggling with all of this back in the late 80’s and early 90’s as you are now. If there were any bible softwares available at the time, I knew nothing of them, but I did finally become familiar with George V. Wigram’s Englishman’s Concordances, and I must share with you a discovery which served, for me, to bookend this subject of who and what is the holy spirit. I had used Strong’s concordances and saw that ‘the comforter’ was mentioned only in the gospel of John, and it appeared only four times: Here they all are:

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

I had seen clearly in my Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance that the Greek word translated ‘comforter’ is ‘parakleetos‘. However, Strong’s gives only the English first, so if that Greek word appears anywhere else in scripture and is translated with another English word, then without a Wigram’s Concordance, which gives the Greek first, there is no way to know whether, or where else in scripture, any particualar Greek or Hebrew word appears.

So when I finally got my hands on a Wigram’s Englishman’s Greek Concordance, I went to those verses in John, and lo and behold, there was a fifth entry for that Greek word ‘parakleetos‘. I pray you will find that verse as instructive as it was to me.

Here it is:

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate [Greek: parakleetos] with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

There it was all along! Now everything Christ had told his disciples became clear. Christ is not the holy spirit, and the holy spirit is not a person. The holy spirit is “the holy spirit of God” (Eph 4:30). The holy spirit “proceeds out from the Father” (Joh 15:26), and by it and through it, Christ is our comforter and our advocate, and by it He is “dwelling within” us and is thereby our “hope of glory”.

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Paul was using the right words, and he agrees with Christ:

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Your brother in Christ, who is also in me, and He and I are in His one Father who is also “one… in us”.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Mike