Mike,

Maybe I was not clear at the end but – “then all Israel will be saved”, is that it referring  to “spiritual Israel” Because many times in the chapter  it is made evident that that spiritual Israel is the subject matter at hand. Spiritual Israel= natural branches of the election (who are Jewish) + gentile branch of the election. I understand completely your point that a Jew is one who is inwardly a Jew. Roman 2:28,29, which also would supports the view that the Israel is the one of election. It is clearly understood that the election of the gentiles does not include all gentiles but it gets fussy when the term Israel is used. Is it natural Israel, spiritual Israel or both when Paul says “And so all Israel shall be saved”?

Of course the gentile branch would be included. Then look at the rest of that verse “There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”.  If all of Israel (natural + spiritual both) is saved then why does the Deliverer need to turn ungodliness away from Jacob? I equate the Deliverer to being the Body of Christ, which is the sum total of the election of Jew + election gentile and maybe the rest of natural Israel. Not to belabor the point, but what does “all Israel” represent in terms of content and how you define the content will affect the meaning of the scripture.

Also another consideration, one might argue that “shall be saved” and “will be saved” in that verse makes salvation in that verse contingent upon the Deliverer coming out of Sion, which implies a future work being done to turn Jacob away from ungodliness. Jacob is different than Israel but one would think all Israel would include Jacob. I think the translators may not have understood all the different nuances of the original translation, and I get a headache thinking about it. I did take a course in logic a long time ago and I know that the natural mind cannot understand the spiritual, but one would think God operates in a logical way; divine logic. Hope that is clearer. All these considerations affect how the verse can be interpreted. Thanks, Mike.
L____

Hi again L____,
You ask if “the all Israel shall be saved” is referring to spiritual Israel? You are correct when you say that spiritual Israel is mentioned in this chapter as the election. But spiritual Israel is being contrasted with natural Israel.
The tone for this chapter and this entire epistle, as I pointed out in my last letter, is set at the beginning of this epistle to the Romans, when Paul informs us at the end of the second chapter that a natural Israelite is not an Israelite at all. He uses the word Jew, but the principle is the same with Israel. Rom 2, Eph 2 and Gal 6 all make clear the spiritual fact that Israel is now spiritual only. The natural Israel is now cut off, broken off, cast away and rejected and has not obtained that for which it sought, “but the election has obtained it.” God is, in Christ, “making of two one new man.” Eph 2 make Rom 11 very clear:

Eph 2:11  Wherefore remember, that ye [ Gentile Ephesians] being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are calle d Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12  That at that [ past] time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh [ to the commonwealth of Israel] by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14  For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [ between us];
Eph 2:15  Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [ even] the law of commandments [ contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [ so] making peace;
Eph 2:16  And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17  And came and preached peace to you which were afar off [ Gentile Ephesians], and to them that were nigh [ them that are called circumcision in the flesh made with hands].
Eph 2:18  For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19  Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20  And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [ stone];
Eph 2:21  In whom all the building [ those called circumcision and those called uncircumcision] fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22  In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

So what is Paul talking about in Rom 11? He is talking about the same thing he is talking about in Rom 2 and here in Eph 2. He comes right out and says so in Rom 9, so there can be no mistaking it:

Rom 9:1  I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Rom 9:2  That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
Rom 9:3  For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4  Who are Israelites [ according to the flesh]; to whom [ pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5  Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [ came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 9:6  Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

As I said earlier, the principle of Rom 2, “He is not a Jew which is one outwardly” carries through for Israel. Physical Israel is not the Israel of God:

Gal 6:15  Can’t you see the central issue in all this? It is not what you and I do– submit to circumcision, reject circumcision. It is what God is doing, and he is creating something totally new, a free life!
Gal 6:16  All who walk by this standard are the true Israel of God— his chosen people. Peace and mercy on them!
Gal 6:17  Quite frankly, I don’t want to be bothered anymore by these disputes. I have far more important things to do– the serious living of this faith. I bear in my body scars from my service to Jesus. (MSG)

The Message (MSG) is certainly not the literal translation that the Concordant version purports itself to be, but it certainly gets the spirit of what Paul is saying in these verses, much better than does the Concordant version:

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything, but a new creation.” (Very good!)
Gal 6:16 And whoever shall observe the elements by this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, also on the Israel of God.” ( “Observe the elements? What does that mean???)
Gal 6:17 For the rest, let no one afford me weariness, for I am bearing in my body the brand marks of the Lord Jesus Christ.” (“Afford me weariness???” That may be a very literal translation, but it is without comprehension to 9 or 10 people.)

The key to understanding what Paul is saying in Romans chapters 2, 9 or 11 is to understand what he means when he says “In Isaac shall thy seed be called.” Once again Paul makes clear what He means by the words he uses. He amplifies the meaning of that phrase in Gal 4:28, but before we look at that verse, let’s notice what you say. You make this statement:
“I think the translators may not have understood all the different nuances of the original translation and I get a headache thinking about it. I did take a course in logic a long time ago and I know that the natural mind can not understand the spiritual, but one would think God operates in a logical way, divine logic.”
You are exactly right. “God operates in a logical way; divine logic.” Now let’s have a look at some of that “divine logic.” What we will be forced to acknowledge is that ‘divine logic’ is counter intuitive to human logic. Let’s look at Gal 4 to nail down what Paul means by the phrase “in Isaac” and to demonstrate what is ‘divine logic.’

Gal 4:28  Now we, brethren Gentile Galatians], as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

There it is just as you said, “God operates in a logical way, [ but that logic is] divine logic,” and the thing about “divine logic” is that it makes it impossible for the natural man to discern what is being said. As I said above, divine logic is counter intuitive to the natural man. Divine logic make the words of God’s Word seem as “foolishness to the natural man.”
Let’s demonstrate this principle with a few more examples of how God’s mind as expressed in His Word is counter intuitive to the mind of the natural man.
1) In order to find life you must lose your life:

Mat 10:39  He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

2) The same message in other words is:

Joh 12:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

3) To see anything you must first be blind:

Joh 9:39  And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

4) If you are going to fight for Christ you must “put up your sword.”

Mat 26:52  Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

5) The rich are poor.

Rev 3:17  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

6) God’s poor are rich.

Jas 2:5  Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

7) To be strong one must first be weak.

2Co 12:10  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

8) Wisdom is foolishness.

Rom 1:22  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
1Co 3:18  Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

What natural man believes that death produces life? That blindness produces sight? That you win the war by putting down your weapons? That the rich are poor? That the poor are rich? That the weak are strong? Or that you may be wise by becoming a fool?
Add to all of that the fact that Christ proclaims that His words will never pass away, and God’s words really are imperceptible by the natural man.
In other words the counter intuitive is, was and will be character of God’s Word is divinely and supremely logical to those who have been given divine logic, but it is contradictory, illogical, and “foolishness to the natural man.”
That is how it is possible for Mat 13 to come right out and say that the multitudes were never intended to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of God, and yet no one can see those words as applying to anyone but those who were there at that time. That is how it is possible for Christ to come right out and say “This generation will not pass away till all these things be fulfilled,” and the natural man will be asking where were the heavenly signs and why did not the end of the age come in that generation?
All of this is true in spite of the fact that Christ tells us that He is the Word, and that He and His words will never pass away. In other words it is absolute “foolishness” to the natural man to be told that Christ and His words “are, were and will be and that they will “never pass away.” The natural man simply cannot discern such a spiritual concept.

Mat 13:10  And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11  He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
1Co 2:13  Which things [“freely given us of God”] also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Mat 24:3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [ shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [ Greek, age]
Mat 24:34  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

“Spiritual discernment” is not something that is taught in a class. It is either given to a man, or it is not given. Look at the verse that precedes Christ’s answer to why He spoke in parables:

Mat 13:9  Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

“Ears to hear” are not natural ears. “Ears to hear” are ears that understand, and ears that understand and discern “the things of the spirit of God, are given to but very few:

Mat 22:14  For many are called, but few are chosen.

As far as God is concerned natural Israel is only “called the circumcision in the flesh made by hands;” and they are only Paul’s “kinsmen according to the flesh.” But they are ” not [ any longer] Jews [ or] the Israel of God” whereas “the election according to faith” is now the “true circumcision” and the “true Israel of God” and “heirs according to the promise.” I hope you can see that there are not two heirs or two sons of the free woman.”
There again is another example of the counter intuitive nature and character of the word of God. Look at what Paul teaches in Gal 4:

Gal 4:21  Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Gal 4:22  For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23  But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24  Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25  For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27  For it is written, Rejoice, [ thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28  Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29  But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [ that was born] after the Spirit, even so [ it is] now.
Gal 4:30  Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Here is the great apostle Paul telling us that Abraham’s two wives are types of the two covenants. The natural man immediately concludes that Sarah’s children are the sons of the free woman. But is that what the holy spirit in Paul concludes? No, instead the holy spirit concludes the exact opposite: “This Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem that now is and is in bondage with her children.”
Where in the world did that come from??? It wasn’t Hagar’s children who were at Mount Sinai in Arabia. It was Sarah’s children who received the law at Mount Sinai. But Paul, without explanation, goes right on to declare that “Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all,” whether Jew or Gentile. He even goes so far as to tell the Gentile Galatians that “We brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise,” and that those who do not understand these spiritual matters, always have and alway will persecute those who do see these “things of the spirit.”
But what happened to the promise that “the gifts and calling of God are without repentance? The answer to that question is given us in another counter intuitive parable, called the parable of the workers in the vineyard:

Mat 20:1  For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man [ that is] an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
Mat 20:2  And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
Mat 20:3  And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
Mat 20:4  And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
Mat 20:5  Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
Mat 20:6  And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
Mat 20:7  They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, [ that] shall ye receive.
Mat 20:8  So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them [ their] hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
Mat 20:9  And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
Mat 20:10  But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
Mat 20:11  And when they had received [ it], they murmured against the goodman of the house,
Mat 20:12  Saying, These last have wrought [ but] one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
Mat 20:13  But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
Mat 20:14  Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
Mat 20:15  Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
Mat 20:16  So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

God is going to save all Israel, just as He has always promised them. The gifts and the calling of God are without repentance. But the first will be last and the last will be first:

Heb 11:39  And these all [ All of the Old Testament men of faith up to John the Baptist], having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise [ their penny]:
Heb 11:40  God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

“They without us” is not us without them. It is those who come into the vineyard at the eleventh hour who receive their reward first.
That “better thing” is to be rulers with Christ for a thousand years, and then to be used of God as the flames of the lake of fire, to bring all these Old Testament saints to Christ. Here is what Christ Himself has to say about all who were called saints in the Old Testament:

Mat 11:11  Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Luk 7:28  For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

Were Abel, Enoch, Noah, Job, Abraham, Moses, David, Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel and all the other Old Testament saints; were they not “born of women?” Of course they were. Yet here we have our Savior Himself telling us that “Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist:” But He goes on to add, “but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”
When we put all of this together with Peter’s incredible statement in the first chapter of his first epistle, it becomes clear that there was no salvation offered under the law or anywhere else in the Old Testament economy:

1Pe 1:10  Of which [11th hour] salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11  Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12  Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

“ Not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister.” Again, that is completely counter intuitive to the thinking of the natural man:

Isa 55:8  For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 I hope this all helps you to see the fact that God will “return the captivity of [ natural] Israel… when Sodom and Samaria be come in,” and that when He does so, He is fulfilling his promise that His “gifts and His callings are [ indeed] without repentance… and so all Israel, [ my kinsmen according to the flesh] shall be saved.”
Your brother in Christ,
Mike