Dear Mike,

Thanks for your reply and your concern. I know that you are sincere and honest in what you believe. If I had not known this, I would never have even brought up the subject of Satan. Actually, as strange as it may sound, I can see it both ways – i. e. literal or symbolic. It seems to work the same either way. It took me a long time to notice that the angel of the Lord stood in the way of Balaam as an “adversary” (Hebrews’ Satan) and a little bit longer than that to realize the significance of it.

No, I don’t think that it was Balaam’s carnal mind. The Scripture says that the “adversary” (Heb. Satan) was the angel of the Lord. Num 22:22

You are most definitely right about God sending “evil spirits” to afflict a man or men or cities. I noticed in one place that He looked for a volunteer for the job. (I can’t remember the exact Scripture right off- hand, but you may remember to which I refer).

I’m not sure if these “evil spirits” are evil all the time or only in their certain mission at the time. Is the “angel of death” always the “angel of death”? Or was the angel only an “angel of death” for the job at hand (the death of the Egyptian first born)?

I also agree with you that men are “beasts”. I also think that the “beast” of Rev 13 is man or men. What is “the bottomless pit” though that the beast comes from and that Satan is imprisoned in?

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that Satan is the carnal mind of a man. The “serpent” is the carnal mind of a man. When this carnal mind becomes an “adversary” (as in the case of Peter being an adversary to Jesus) then it becomes “Satan”, i. e. sin manifested in the flesh. The devil is “the wicked one”, “the man of sin”, the part of us we have to overcome. The combination of all of these is the ” dragon” and the “beast” (man) is under its (his) influence.

The word, “adversaries” in 2Sa 19:22 is also translated from the Hebrew “Satan” and means more than one adversary and refers to men, not a spirit being.

I really doubt the importance of whether you believe me or not – and I highly recommend that you believe Scripture above anything that I have to say. But I would ask that you keep it in mind in your studies. I wish I understood all the symbols of the book of Revelation, but I don’t. What is the “great chain” (Rev 20:1)?

Sincerely,

C_____

Hi C____,

I think you know that I do not doubt your sincerity or your integrity, only your conclusions. Your whole premise seems to be based on the unscriptural belief that man is not a beast. Just because man can reason, does not separate him from the beast kingdom. He is definitely at the head of that kingdom, but he is still scripturally in it. Why should it be considered so fantastic for God to have Satan to speak through a serpent? As you point out, Adam and Eve had no reason to wonder since they had nothing about which to be surprised in their ignorance. Did God not at one time have another messenger to speak through an ass? And don’t resort to calling Baalam names to remain true to your theory. God sent an angel with a sword that appeared to Balaam’s ass, not to Baalam’s carnal mind. You keep coming up against these brick walls. Was Baalam smiting his carnal mind? Did his carnal mind cause his ass to crush his foot? Just asking and trying to get you to see that it is the “things that are not seen,” the things that are “in the heavens” that we are really “wrestling” with. Look where this human reasoning away of the things of the spirit will lead you. If Satan is merely the carnal human mind, it follows that Christ is simply the mind that resists the evil, but that is not so. Christ is a Spirit and so is His adversary. That is why the scriptures consistently talk about “evil spirits.” You see a lot, but for some reason you don’t seem to want to use scriptural words to express what you see when it comes to this particular subject. Why not simply agree and repeat the words of God, “An evil spirit from the Lord troubled Saul,” tempted David, afflicted Job, lied to Ahab’s prophets, etc.? Do you really think that being scriptural is that bad a thing?

Now look at what is wrong with your “man is not a beast” theory. Surely you are familiar with this scripture, so maybe you have already “perfected” an answer. But I will try anyway.

Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all [ is] vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

So are men beasts? Am I coming to this subject with an ‘idol of the heart?’ I am not questioning your character or motives.

It is true though that if either of us has such an idol of the heart that God has deceived that prophet and He will answer that prophet according to the idols of his heart.

Of course I don’t think that I am deceived, and I am sure that you don’t think that you are deceived. But one of us is not approaching God’s Word with an open mind. As you yourself point out, the vast majority of mankind does not believe that there is a devil. That gives the old adversary a lot of room in which to operate.

By the way, what did you decide what was the reason that Satan was cast into the abyss for 1000 years while the carnal mind of man is still in need of a “rod of iron?”

Eze 14:4 Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet [ or the scriptures]; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;

I too, have considered this both ways. Your way just almost seems to make sense. It seems that any time the adversary is mentioned it involves the reasoning of the carnal mind. So it is understandable why you see this as you do. But the adversary feeding on the carnal mind is not to say that the adversary is the carnal mind. In scripture, the carnal mind is the beast. But the beast is given great power by the serpent, who is the devil and the adversary:

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Yet man continues to rebel right on through the millennium, even though the rebellion is dealt with harshly and is always “broken as the vessel of a potter.”

This continues in spite of the fact that the serpent, the adversary, is no longer able to “deceive the nations until the thousand years are fulfilled.”

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The “seal” that keeps the adversary from deceiving the nations is the fact that the nations are not allowed to be deceived about who the adversary is and what he teaches. People are deceived today for the very reason that most do not believe that there is such a thing as a powerful spirit that is capable of deceiving them. It is the serpent himself that tells them that they themselves are a god that cannot really die. It is the adversary himself who had Joseph’s brothers thinking that everything they thought to do against Joseph was in reality their own idea. It wasn’t their idea. God sent an evil spirit to tempt them to sell Joseph into Egypt, just as surely as Ahab’s prophets thought that their prophecies were their own idea, when in reality God had sent an evil spirit to tempt them to prophesy lies and convince Ahab to go up to Ramoth- Gilead to die in battle. Every evil thought anyone has is the result of this ‘adversary feeding on dust’ principle. The solution is:

Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Now since “all things are of God,” what you are really ‘resisting’ is someone who God Himself has created for the very purpose of being a trying adversary to suggest to the carnal mind that it really would be better off to rebel against God. So, of course Eve thought that she would be wise and would enjoy the taste of the forbidden fruit, not simply because she had thought of doing so, but because the serpent tempted her to do what she was already inclined to do. It was and is an inevitable tragedy, designed to need an already prepared Deliverer. The weak carnal mind of man is a chief element in this plan, but it is directed by a world of spirits headed up by one who scripturally is called Satan, that old Serpent the Devil. They are all names and titles of the one and same Adversary. This being the case does not exclude the fact that messengers are sent to be adversaries of the Adversary.

Jdg 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

The word ‘ adversary’ is no more exclusive to Satan and his angels than the word ‘Savior’ is to Christ:

Neh 9:27 Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours [ the different judges], who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.
Oba 1:21 And saviours [ those who compose the ‘lake of fire’] shall come up on mount Zion [ the kingdom of God] to judge the mount of Esau [ the world]; and the kingdom shall be the LORD’S.
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and c hurch of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

The ‘saviors,’ the ‘New Jerusalem,’ the ‘144,000,’ ‘the lake of fire,’ the ‘elect,’ the ‘chosen,’ ‘the bride,’ the temple of God,’ the firstfruits,’ etc. are all one and the same. They are all the ‘eklectos,’ those chosen out of the many called.

There is coming a time when we, too, will be “Like these angels which neither marry nor are given in marriage,” but for now we are in the flesh, and without the mind of Christ in us, we will fall victim to the lies of these apparent “angels of light.”

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

You asked about the “great chain” of Rev 20:1. I believe that you can see that Revelation was “SIGNified by John.”

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and sign ified it by his angel unto his servant John:

If the function of this chain is simply to keep Satan from deceiving the nations, then the truth being disseminated by the ruling elect of that day would itself fill the bill. The “abyss” and “outer darkness” are both typical of the darkness of believing a lie or many lies. Satan’s job is to lie and deceive. He dwells in darkness. But the beast himself is also said to “ascend out of the bottomless pit.”

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

You are right; ‘the beast’ is mankind::

Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

Mankind being the beast is not even a matter of conjecture. The fact that the beast “ascends out of the bottomless pit” should tell us that mankind eventually comes out from under that Dragon who gives him his “great authority and power” to deceive both himself and others. Satan never “fell.” “He was a liar and a murderer from the beginning.“

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

But when we finally are commissioned to “judge angels,” then Satan himself will be, not cast into prison as during the millennium, but he will at that time be cast into the ‘lake of fire,’ because it is now time for him, too to be purified by those who constitute that small ‘lake of fire.’

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

This is the millennial rule.

1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

This is post- millennium, when we, just as our God is, will be “a consuming fire.”

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

What is He like?

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

And who is it that is not hurt of this fire? Who is it that is right at home in this lake of fire? Who is it that dwells there?

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

This is a good question. What is the answer?

Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

This, too, is the exact opposite from what the whole world teaches, so at least it has that going for it as a truth of the scriptures.

I appreciate your desire to know God’s mind. That is practically the definition of life eternal:

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

You keep digging and so will I. In the meantime, I will close with a scripture that should be of comfort to both of us if indeed all we want is the mind of God:

Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Mike