What Is “Everlasting Destruction In Flaming Fire Taking Vengeance” o​f 2 Thessalonians 1?

Hello Mike and all at iswasandwillbe​,

I am perplexed by some of the words used in this particular chapter,​ Mike, rather, ​I should say phrases; i​n particular “everlasting destruction” and the word “from”.​

My understanding so far in this chapter is that the saints are asked to endure their tribulations and suffering, which plainly stated says “for the manifest token of the righteous judgment of God” to be counted worthy of His kingdom. The phrases “to be counted worthy of His kingdom” verse 5 and “God would count you worthy of this calling” verse 11 seem that this is all part of God’​s work in their lives,​ meaning “through much tribulation we enter into the kingdom of God’.

In verse 3 the phrases their “faith grows exceedingly” “and their love toward one another abounds” grabbed my attention.​

Are these results in the saints meaning “faith grows exceedingly” and abounding love?​ Are these the fruit of God​’s manifest token of the righteous judgment? The righteous judgment is from God for them to endure and grow? For the purpose of “That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you and you in him” verse 12?

Secondly: “it is a righteous thing to repay those troubling you”. ​I think I understand this but not sure. The same tribulation is given to the ones afflicting the saints by God. But what has me perplexed are the verses 7-10.  Could you help clarify these words for me? The phrases in question are “everlasting destruction” and “in flaming fire taking vengeance”. Once again THANK-YOU so much for your direction. I truly appreciate iswasandwillbe​.

In Christ, S____​

Hi S____,

Thank you for your questions. You ask about the wording of the first chapter of 1 Thessalonians, and you quote a part of these verses:

2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

What you say you do understand is right on target.​ You say:

My understanding so far in this chapter is that the saints are asked to endure their tribulations and suffering which plainly stated says “for the manifest token of the righteous judgment of God” to be counted worthy of His kingdom. The phrases “to be counted worthy of His kingdom” verse 5 and ” God would count you worthy of this calling” verse 11. It seems that this is all part of Gods work in their lives. meaning “through much tribulation we enter into the kingdom of God”.

That is exactly right as these verses below make clear:

Php 2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 
Php 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

These words in Thessalonians and in Philippians are in accord with all the rest of the Words of God from Genesis to Revelation. They accord completely with what Joseph told his brothers concerning what they felt certain was a work they had ​imagined and executed to thwart the fulfilling of the message of Joseph’s dreams as a 17 year old youth:

Gen 37:2  These are the generations of Jacob. Joseph, being seventeen years old, was feeding the flock with his brethren; and the lad was with the sons of Bilhah, and with the sons of Zilpah, his father’s wives: and Joseph brought unto his father their evil report.
Gen 37:3  Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours.
Gen 37:4  And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him. 
Gen 37:5  And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.
Gen 37:6  And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
Gen 37:7  For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
Gen 37:8  And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words. 
Gen 37:9  And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Gen 37:10  And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth? 

You know the story of how his father later sent him to see how his brothers were doing, and they at first planned to kill Joseph before R​e​uben and Judah talked them out of doing that and instead sold him for twenty pieces of silver as a slave to some Midianites,​ who then sold him as a slave to Potiphar:

Gen 37:36  And the Midianites sold him into Egypt unto Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh’s, and captain of the guard.

What was really happening at that moment? It was the same as what has always been taking place in the kingdoms of men. The words in these next verses are even now true, just as they were then and will always be true:

Gen 45:4  And Joseph said unto his brethren, Come near to me, I pray you. And they came near. And he said, I am Joseph your brother, whom ye sold into Egypt. 
Gen 45:5  Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life.
Gen 45:6  For these two years hath the famine been in the land: and yet there are five years, in the which there shall neither be earing nor harvest.
Gen 45:7  And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance.
Gen 45:8  So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt.

Those words are true right down to the thoughts which begin to be formulated in our minds, as well as the expression of those thoughts that come from our hearts via our mouths:

Pro 16:1  The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

The fourth verse makes this super clear in reinforcing that the evil of Joseph’s brothers against him was really a work the Lord was doing by sending an evil spirit to tempt his brothers to do their evil deed:

Pro 16:4  The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. 

These words are true on the individual level and on the national level, as the story of the humiliation of King Nebuchadnezzar reveals:

Dan 4:17  This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

When Christ said that all power in heaven and in earth had been given to Him…

Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

That “all power” includes the “all power” which is wielded by the adversary and his minions on this earth, as Paul discusses in the very next chapter of 2 Thessalonians:

2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

I am confident you already know everything I am saying. The “all power” of this verse is not to be understood as a power superior to the power given Christ. Rather, it is the same power exercised by Christ through sending evil spirits to prepare the hearts of Joseph’s brothers to do the evil they did to him, and the working of Satan with all power also to ​prepare the heart of King Nebuchadnezzar just prior to his humiliation.

This is true in all things, right down to the crucifixion of Christ:

Act 4:26  The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
Act 4:27  For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Act 4:28  For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. 

And so it is also with your second question. You ask:

Secondly: “it is a righteous thing to repay those troubling you”. I think I understand this but not sure. The same tribulation is given to the ones afflicting the saints by God.

Rest assured that the “righteous thing to repay those troubling you” is the exact same “one event” which was used by God to drag you and me to His righteousness through His chastening judgments. That is the very thing through which we all “learn righteousness” as these verses all demonstrate:

Ecc 9:2  All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

All “good” men are evil men first. Then God makes them good, but “it is God that works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure.​

That “one event” is God’s judgment upon the kingdom of our old man who loathes giving up his illegitimate claim to the throne of our hearts and minds​, and to the hearts and minds of all men. But God’s chastening grace burns up the kingdom of our old man,​ and it is His grace which is the judgment of God in our lives and in the lives of all men of all time, as these verses demonstrate:

Isa 26:8  Yea, in the way of thy judgments, O LORD, have we waited for thee; the desire of our soul is to thy name, and to the remembrance of thee.
Isa 26:9  With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. 

While the Lord has seen fit to hide this Truth in the New Testament through very poor translations, the message of Isa 26:9 is nonetheless right here for all who are given to see and to hear what the holy spirit inspired to be written:

Tit 2:11  For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Tit 2:12  Teaching [Greek:​ paideuo -​ chastening] us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world [Greek:​ aion -​ age];

Finally you ask:

But what has me perplexed are the verses 7-10.  Could you help clarify these words for me, Mike. They are “everlasting destruction” and “in flaming fire taking vengeance.​

Here are verses 7-10:

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Paul and his readers knew that he was speaking in a symbolic, spiritual sense when using the words “flaming fire”. They also knew that what Paul said here was age-​lasting punishment, and not “everlasting punishment”.

The Greek actually reads:

2Th 1:9 who shall incur the justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His strength. (CLV)

“Eonian extermination” is experienced by every man who has ever died or who ever will die. The kingdom of our old man is exterminated and is destroyed “by fire”.

So these verses here in 2 Thessalonians are simply saying the same thing Paul tells the Corinthians in these verses. Everyone knew,​ at that time, exactly what Paul meant by using the word ‘fire’ and ‘fiery’:

1Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13  Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. 
1Co 3:14  If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If any man’s work shall be burned [by the fire of the Word of God”., he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire [“flaming fire, taking vengeance” on the kingdom of my old man].

I hope this helps you to see that the destruction of our old man is the fiery birth of our new man.

God does indeed take vengeance upon our old man, and he will take vengeance upon the kingdoms of this world. But through that fiery vengeance they will all “be saved, yet so as by [flaming] fire”.

Let me know if you still have questions.

Your brother who is honored to be able to help​,​

Mike