Hi Mike,

I have a question about this verse.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Are the saints in this verse the 144,000, the Christ, the anointed ones, the priest and kings that rule with Jesus?

Sincerely and thanks,

G____

Hi G____,

Thank you for your question. I can easily appreciate why you would ask about the difference between the saints and the beloved city. It just sounds like they are two separate entities, but they are not separate. The saints are the beloved city, and this is how we know this to be true:

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

During the thousand years, “he that overcomes”, which is just a definition of the saints, will have the name of God and the name of the city of God written upon him, and that will be the new name given him by Christ.
All of this means simply, that the throne of God, the river of life and the tree of life, are all within this “camp of the saints”, which is “the New Jerusalem”.
So New Jerusalem is not a geographical location; rather the New Jerusalem is all those on whom this name is ‘written’. And “written” is not a physical writing; it is rather possessing the mind of Christ and His Father.
The “New Jerusalem” and “the camp of the saints” will be governing every city, town and home on earth for a thousand years. All the corruption and depravity that marks this age will be subdued just as Satan himself will be locked within the “bottomless pit” of each man during that one thousand year period. But, because God has every intention of destroying death, He has determined in advance to release Satan from this prison and send him out to deceive the nations in the four quarters of the earth. “The four quarters of the earth” means the whole of mankind. That is the spiritual significance of the number four in scripture. It signifies the whole of whatever is under discussion. In this case it is all of mankind which is under discussion. All of mankind will “encompass the camp of the saints” who have been ruling over the nations for one thousand years, and at the appointed time, something the scriptures call “fire from heaven” will consume them all and at that moment, the great white throne judgement, the judgment of all men who have ever lived and died not knowing the Christ who is in this New Jerusalem, will begin to be purified by that very same “camp of the saints” who they had ‘encamped against’, and whom they had hoped to throw off as their rulers. That is the meaning of ruling the world and ruling angels also.

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the [ camp of the] saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we [ the camp of the saints] shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

This is all portrayed for us by the period of 13-15 years from the time Joseph’s brothers attempted to cast off their ruler until the time they found themselves bowing down to that very ruler.

Gen 37:3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours.
Gen 37:4 And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him.
Gen 37:5 And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.
Gen 37:6 And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
Gen 37:7 For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
Gen 37:8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.

Joseph’s rule over his brothers had been revealed to them through Joseph’s dreams and the coat of many colors given him by his father, and just as immense resentment was building up between Joseph and his brothers, so do those who are “ruled with a rod of iron” for a thousand years, resent their rulers and attempt to destroy them.
We have all done this as we at first resist the truth with the support of the mere lies of that great harlot whose children we all are by nature. The fact that we see that this is a process that God is working in our lives, and in time, in the lives of all men, makes us hated of all men.
But the time comes when the flesh is ruled by the spirit. This is true for us all at our own appointed time. It is ordained by God that at this time “many are called but few are chosen” to become part of that “blessed and holy first resurrection” to rule this world first during a thousand years, and then to rule even the angels and the spirits of all men through an indeterminate period of time which is called both “the lake of fire” and the “great white throne… judgment”.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

But just as we have all been overcome of the Lamb, so too, will all men of all time be overcome of that very same Lamb. But the Lamb will accomplish His victory over death through His Christ, His anointed, who are all called the “saviors” who are with Him.

Oba 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD’S.

This time of turning against our rulers is again foreshadowed by what Joseph’s brothers did to him. It was just as much a work of God as Satan’s release from the bottomless pit and the deception that follows that release, and the destruction which follows that rebellion is all a predestined work of God.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I hope this all helps you to see that the rulership of those with the name New Jerusalem written upon them is not a future event, but is being done this very moment in the lives of those who are of that city at this time:

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

So the Jerusalem this world is being taught will rule during the millennium is in reality not Jerusalem at all and is rather the mother who is known to God as a bondwoman and is said to be in bondage with her children.
It is “Jerusalem above, the mother of us all”, which comes down from heaven into the hearts and minds of all who are even now the spiritual children of the spiritual “free woman.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple [ the New Jerusalem] of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

These are not words for the future, but rather “the time [ which is] at hand”.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

This will all have a future application, at the end of the millennium, but that should not be our chief concern. What those who make up that “camp of the saints” concern themselves with is the ‘IS’ part of Christ and His Word. There is plenty of evil with which we have to struggle today. We have no need to concern ourselves with the struggles which follow the millennium. What happens at that time will take care of itself.

Mat 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

I hope I have answered your questions about who is “the camp of the saints” and who is “the beloved city”.
They are both the overcomers of chapters two and three, and like the cows and corn or Pharaoh’s dream, they are one.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike