Hi Mike,

Thanks so much for the response. I have not seen the article on The Head of the Church is God, but will read it soon. I was basing my questions on two emails you have that pretty much say “women can’t teach period” — of course, I’m paraphrasing and may not even be accurate. That was the impression I had.
Here are the two emails to which I referred:
http:// www. iswasandwillbe. com/ Role_ of_ women_ in_ church. php
http:// www. iswasandwillbe. com/ womenteach. php
The first one only addresses what women should not do. The second addresses what women should do and then what married women are to do. As you know, this is not my situation. The email you wrote to me much more addresses what women can do as opposed to what women can’t do. Somehow the “keeping silence in the church” was making the rest of Scripture ‘not for me’ but for men only. I was thinking I only needed to be ready with an answer if a younger woman asked, but could only smile if a man asked. Which, of course, is either adding to or removing from scripture. I was confused.
Since most of the people who seem to ask me questions are younger men, neither of these letters addressed my own role in the church. I am here all alone so the men of the “church” I know are online. My “church” is online — so keeping silence in the church to me would be to simply not take part in fellowship.
Doesn’t applying these verses about “women” only to literal women mean that you are saying that not every word from the mouth of God applies to you (men). And if these verses only apply to literal women, doesn’t that mean that Godis a respecter of persons and that all the verses that apply to “men” don’t apply to me (women)?
I’m not asking you to rewrite what you’ve already said. I’m just asking exactly where that line is drawn. Now, my question is should I “dumb up” because there are men in the discussion? I know I am not supposed to teach with authority within the church, but are we to just shut up when God has revealed to us what He has not yet revealed to the man asking the question? ” Are we, as women, supposed to “dumb up” when we have the answer to a question simply because a man is the one asking? It sounds like we can’t witness about a thing that might have even one iota of “teaching” in it. For instance, I might say “I believe Christ is going to save all mankind” but I can’t say why because it might be “teaching so I can’t give a scripture. I can’t show one answer to one question a younger, less knowledgeable man might have.
It’s all very confusing trying to be tough enough to be the head of the household of teenage boys while studying scripture and then not being allowed to even have an opinion to a man. Whew!
But couldn’t we say that the discussion of both men and women’s role in the church is a spiritual type of the relationship between us and Christ and Christ and the Father? That basically both of us (types of women) are to be silent in the presence of Christ (type of man) and not dare to teach Him, as Christ in turn defers totally to God the Father.
And you see I run right into the problem in having this discussion with you — not that I would dare to teach you — but that I am not exactly keeping silent either. I am still confused on where the line is drawn between teaching, witnessing and just having our tongues cut out.
What I do know is that I should approach all speaking with meekness, humility and fear. I have certainly found that waiting for the question is a much better approach then throwing around answers to questions that haven’t been asked. I do see that the man as the head of the household is God’s way, but I also see that that has had no relation to the cards I was dealt in my own literal household.
You know, Mike, your teachings have so opened up the spiritual meaning of scripture to me and probably the only thing equal has been “Types in Genesis” by Andrew Jukes. The spiritual meaning of all words, comparing spiritual to spiritual, types and shadows– I learned these from you. The “numbers” series you did was huge in my understanding. I’ve listened to colors and metals and hope to get to the animals soon.
Well, rest assured that I am nowhere on the road to “hating” you for what your teaching is. I truly have no desire to dominate men or have any authority over anyone. Okay, truth be known I HATE MICE these days and would like to dominate them by forever banning them from my house… you think you’ve closed every entrance, but those little buggers find a way to get in … and how do they know how to avoid those glue traps in the dark… my dogs seem to find them easily… but that’s another story…
I know how busy you are and apologize for taking up so much of your time!
Blessings,
C____

Hi C____,
Thank you for your question.

You say:

I am still confused on where the line is drawn between teaching, witnessing and just having our tongues cut out.

That ‘line’ you are searching for is not really that hard to find. It is all really a matter of what is in your heart. God knows my heart and He knows your heart. If I have any resentment whatsoever against any woman in the world, then God will burn that resentment out of me. If, on the other hand you have any desire in your heart to ignore God’s Words concerning your role as wives and mothers and as women in His church, then that resentment also will be burned out of you.
God’s church is “the body of Christ.” If my mouth is unable to be used because of laryngitis, then my hand will quietly, humbly and willingly, step right up and write out what I want said. My hand has no desire at all to be my mouth, but when the need for expression arises and my mouth is not capable, my hand is used to express my thoughts.
Here is what we are told at the very beginning of mankind’s existence.

Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, [ It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
(MKJV) And Jehovah God said, It is not good that the man should be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.

You ask:

Now, my question is should I “dumb up” because there are men in the discussion? I know I am not supposed to teach with authority within the church, but are we to just shut up when God has revealed to us what He has not yet revealed to the man asking the question.”

Absolutely not! You “dumb up” only when there are men there speaking the truth. You never fail to “give an answer for the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.”

1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness’ sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Those words are addressed to men and to women. But “the church” as you know, is not a building, but God’s people, so “if two or more are gathered together” and one happens to be a man, then it would be a godly woman who would want that man to speak God’s words of truth instead of her. “A meek and quiet spirit” is not a spirit that is afraid of what any man thinks, but it is a spirit that is very concerned with obeying the words of her spiritual husband, Christ. If “the man asking the question” wants an answer from you, then you need to be ready, willing and able to answer that question with a “meek and quiet spirit.” You cannot answer anyone with a “dumb spirit”. Christ casts out spirits of dumbness:

Mat 9:32 As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil.
Mat 9:33 And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel.

Being afraid to stand for truth is nothing less than a spiritually dumb spirit, whether that truth is the salvation of all or the role of women.
I know very well that you are not seeking to be a teacher of men “in the church,” and yet you speak for many women with these words. It has to be hard for a woman to hold herself back and let her husband take the lead. It has to be just as hard for a single woman to let men be the leaders in the church and in society in general. That is especially true in a society which has succumbed to the feminist doctrine and has, in that process, emasculated the male of the species.
So the line you are looking for is a willingness to be quiet when there are men who are leading in truth, and a willingness to speak that truth when God himself has not placed a man there to tell the truth.
Every truly godly woman wants a strong, godly man to lead her and her family. Every godly single woman wants men to be leaders in the church and in the community. But when the world is full of spiritual ‘Baraks’ who will not go to war for God’s truth unless a spiritual ‘Deborah’ goes with him, then God’s modern day Deborahs go with those men, and while doing so, these modern ‘Deborahs let such faithless men know that the glory of winning the battle will not go to that man but will go to a woman who was willing to stand alone with God. The whole story of Deborah answers your question about “where is the line?” Where the line is depends upon where the men around you are in Christ. Every woman will live these words somewhere in her life. When there is no man to answer the question, then stand up and witness to the Truth. If Deborah had refused to go to war with Barak against those who were oppressing God’s people, then the war would never have been waged.

Jdg 4:8 And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go.

If Jael had waited for wimpy Barak, the enemy would have escaped, and the battle would not have been completed.
But if Barak had been the leader he should have been; had Barak had in himself the relationship with God which Deborah had, there would have been no need for Deborah to even have been judging Israel in the first place, much less leading Israel into battle. The whole story of Deborah and Barak in Judges is an indictment of men who refuse to speak up in God’s church today and stand for “what is written therein.” The men who refused to even go to battle are cursed in that story:

Jdg 5:23 Curse ye Meroz, said the angel of the LORD, curse ye bitterly the inhabitants thereof; because they came not to the help of the LORD, to the help of the LORD against the mighty.

The men today who refuse to stand for the truth of God’s Word, what both the Old and the New Testaments, say about God’s order in the physical home, with physical families and in God’s spiritual home, with the spiritual family of God, are those who “come not to the help of the Lord against the mighty” forces which are determined to undermine and neutralize and eventually destroy from off this earth, God’s elect who have His words in their mouths.
But at the same time, and in the very next verse, the women who both humbly and courageously, stand in the gap, for those very words of Truth, are praised and honored.

Jdg 5:24 Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent.
Jdg 5:25 He [ Sisera] asked water, and she gave him milk; she brought forth butter in a lordly dish.
Jdg 5:26 She put her hand to the nail, and her right hand to the workmen’s hammer; and with the hammer she smote Sisera, she smote off his head, when she had pierced and stricken through his temples.
Jdg 5:27 At her feet he bowed, he fell, he lay down: at her feet he bowed, he fell: where he bowed, there he fell down dead.

Do you want to “smite Sisera?” Do you want to be Deborah and Jael? I hope you do have such aspirations. If you do, it is nothing more or less than a gift from God, and if you have been given that gift you will “smite Sisera,” and ‘Sisera’ will bow at your feet.’ But that will be done only by standing up for God’s own words which are all through out both the Old and New Testaments. Women are created to serve God by inspiring men to be leaders and by helping men to serve God. Women are created to speak when men will not do so. That is what scripture teaches. That is where ‘the line is.’
I have pointed out that, “let your women keep silence in the churches” that ‘silence’ is really the word ‘quiet.’ But, Lord willing, I will never be so afraid of any man that I ignore the plain words of God and rationalize my way around those words for fear of what men and women might say and do.
If you really want to “judge Israel” or “smite Sisera,” then take these words of Peter and apply them to the church. Paul tells us the marriage relationship is all really speaking of the church and its relationship to Christ.

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, [ men and women in Christ] be in subjection to your own husbands [ Christ]; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; [“Without the word…” As Christ’s wife, I am an example to those who oppose me and what I teach by not attacking them or even trying to change their mind, but rather…]
1Pe 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. [“Your chaste conversation” means your quiet way of life.]
1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; [ Putting the gold of God’s word around our own heart’s idols and being accepted of men by accepting false doctrines]
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. [ When I refrain myself from trying to show my enemy his error, that is of great price to God and to Christ.]
1Pe 3:5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: [ Abraham, a type of Christ who submitted to his head, obeyed God and was called righteous]
1Pe 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid [ of religious feminists] with any amazement.
Eph 5:32 This [ the marriage relationship discussed above] is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

I feel that I have dealt with what the scriptures have to say about all of this in depth in the paper on iswasandwillbe. com entitled The Head of Christ Is God. I hope you will take the time to read, or if necessary, reread that paper. The whole orthodox Protestant world has come to the conclusion in just the past few decades that all the very Biblical words concerning a woman’s role in the church are tantamount to declaring women to be inferior to men, as if the body was somehow inferior to its head simply because the mind of the body is in its head, and a wife is inferior to her husband simply because she is not the leader and head of the household.
The calling God has given His elect is a tough calling for us all. We all see and hear confusion and lies being spread all around us every day by men and women alike. How we handle ourselves in this situation, reveals what is in us. We cannot hide Christ, and neither can we hide it if our father is really the Devil. What is in us is what will come out of us.

Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

The principle involved in physical marriage carries through into, and is really nothing more than a reflection of the realm of the spirit. Christ is working all things, so when I hear a minister teaching eternal hell fire, I too, am tempted to immediately rattle off Joh 6:44, 1Co 15:22, 1Ti 2:4, 1Ti 4:10, 2Pe 3:9, 1Jn 2:2 etc. etc. etc. But I cannot do so simply because I would be disobeying God’s command, “Cast not your pearls before swine… be ready always to given an answer to him that asketh…” etc. It is Christ who, through an evil spirit, has every orthodox Christian minister speaking all those lies and “deceiving the whole world.” For me to try to withstand those ministers is the same as a woman feeling that she has to preach and teach in the church, just because men are not doing so or simply because she believes God has called her to do so. The Truth is that God has sent a lying spirit into the mouths of all of today’s orthodox Christian ministers and into the mouths of all who deny that Christ was made sin and our keeping every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
In the paper, The Head of Christ Is God, I pointed to all the women mentioned in the New Testament who had spoken out for Christ. In every instance, these women simply witnessed to the Truth. The woman at the well told “the men of the city” come see a man who told me all I ever did.” Why can’t all the women who want to be teachers and preachers do the same today? Why cannot the women today who claim a desire to serve God, see the humble spirit in this woman, and see how she directed those to whom God had sent her, to go to Christ to learn. Where, in that story, is this woman seeking to get men to sit down and listen to her. She is directing “the men of the city” to Christ. Any woman doing that today will be showing men that the “Word of God”, one of Christ’s many titles, forbids women to teach “in the church”. “In the church” means when there are men present to do the teaching. If there is not a teacher present, then do not fail to answer questions simply because God has not placed a teacher there to answer the questions you are being asked.
Neither Paul nor Peter nor Christ ever tell women that they are never to speak to men about Christ. All of Paul’s and Peter’s statements are made to ministers and churches. Paul is writing to the church at Corinth, to Timothy and to Titus, when he makes his statements about women. Peter’s epistle is addressed to God’s “elect” when he makes his statements agreeing with Paul.

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Read God’s Word concerning women. Look at what women did in scripture. Look at all the things women are admonished to do in scripture, and ask God for the wisdom and strength to abide by his words.
That is what I did in that paper The Head of Christ Is God.
I am thankful for your fellowship. I have articulated this as best I can with, as always, the scriptures as my foundation.
I hope I have said something that will help you to see more clearly where is the “line” you are seeking. That line is what keeps us all from sinning against our heavenly Father. That line is the mind of Christ, on this or any other subject. Here is the only way to even hope to know where is that line:

Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike